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2017 C5 tyres

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2017 C5 tyres
Started at 06:39pm on the 13th April, 2017 by Andy M
Andy M Subject: 2017 C5 tyres
I picked up my new bike today. Very happy, its great to be thumping down the road again. Only 15 miles as I wanted to get it in the garage, ACF-50'd, bolts checked, tool kit figured out etc. This brings me to the tyres. AVONS marked tubeless. They have tubes for certain, you can see on the valve stems. Is this going back to the disaster the Bring My Wallet corporation visited on us where you can't plug a puncture and can't break the bead to change the tube either? Does anyone have any experience? Do I just need to get the wheels off, break the bead and get some lube in (no factory ever lubes tyres) or should I be looking at our hosts selection on TT rubber? Cheers Andy
Posted: 06:39pm 13th April, 2017
papasmurf Subject: 2017 C5 tyres
There are no problems with tubes inside tubeless tyres. There was a long discussion on the forum about it a few months ago.
Posted: 07:06pm 13th April, 2017
2cvandy Subject: 2017 C5 tyres
I think pretty well all modern bike tyres are tubeless, and will of course be fitted with tubes if fitted to a spoke wheel otherwise the air would leak past the spokes. It's perfectly normal and nothing to worry about. You can't plug a puncture in a tubed tyre obviously, you could carry tyre levers and a patch kit? Personally I carry a can of tyre foam (which has saved me a long walk once) and a mobile phone in case the tyre foam doesn't work, because if the tube has torn, it won't.

All of this applies to any bike with spoke wheels of course, not just Enfields.

A couple of things perhaps worth mentioning for when you fit new tyres though, I have seen some tyres supplied with labels stuck on the inside, these need removing obviously, and I always run talc over the tube to provide a little lubrication and help reduce chaffing, because in spite of the manufacturers saying it's okay to fit tubes, I'm not convinced that tubeless tyres are as smooth on the inside as tubed tyres were.

It might be worth pulling the tyres off to rust proof the inside of the rims, because they will rust, but personally I'd leave that till the tyres need changing.

TBH, I think I'd just go and play with the new bike and not worry about it. Enjoy.
Posted: 07:09pm 13th April, 2017
Andy M Subject: 2017 C5 tyres
Can you get the tubes out at the side of the road with levers though? You can't on an F650, one nail and its a ride on the RAC truck. Andy
Posted: 07:10pm 13th April, 2017
2cvandy Subject: 2017 C5 tyres
I'm not entirely sure I understand the question tbh.

To get the tube out on any bike you need to break the bead, and to do that ideally you need the wheel laid on the floor.

Given that one of my other bikes with tubes in spoke wheels is a Harley, and I can't get the wheels out of that without a lift, attempting to repair a puncture at the side of the road is not something that would occur to me, hence the can of tyre foam. It's a temporary repair at best, but then so is a patched tube, I'd want to change either asap anyway.
Posted: 07:26pm 13th April, 2017
Andy M Subject: 2017 C5 tyres
You get a punture, you replace the tube, its fixed, you carry on riding and patch the old tube at the night halt. You get a punture you fill the tyre with gunk you limp home and repeat the job, having to bin the gunk filled tube. You get a puncture, the tubeless tyre has a safety bead that won't push off into the well, you call the RAC, they take all day to trailer the bike to their less than secure storage compound where it sits until they can be bothered to bring it to you. I'll try one in the garage where I have the full kit and let you know. Andy.
Posted: 07:54pm 13th April, 2017
Edward Subject: 2017 C5 tyres
Fitting a tube in a tubeless tyre reduces the speed rating of the tyre to the next lower classification. Not a lot of people know that.
Posted: 09:06pm 13th April, 2017
ric Subject: 2017 C5 tyres
That's why I fit V rated tubeless tyres on my Enfield ;)
Posted: 09:43pm 13th April, 2017
AndyMc Subject: 2017 C5 tyres
Hi I was the OP for the tyre discussion a while ago. After much discussion I changed to Avons. Much better handling.. This was in prep for a long road trip I have planned. As an experiment I tried to change the tyres myself to see if it was possible to fix a puncture at the roadside.... in short.. No chance. Get good breakdown cover. I got the wheel off ok and broke the bead using my tyre levers (these are way too big to carry on the bike) then struggled for 20 mins to get the tyre off and the tube out. I put another hole in the tube. Didn't even try to get the new (tighter, less flexible) tyre on. I took the whole shebang to my dealer who fitted 2 tyres in 5 mins and only said" I told you so" once. Lesson learned.
Posted: 09:55pm 13th April, 2017
2cvandy Subject: 2017 C5 tyres
I do normally fit my own tyres at home, partly because I like to clean off and treat any rust spots on the inside of the rim, and partly because I live 40 miles from my nearest motorcycle tyre fitter, I can change a tyre quicker than driving there and back.

There is definitely a knack, and it gets easier with practice, I put a new rear Avon on the Enfield last week in half an hour and I wasn't rushing.

The only one I've found that was a bit of a struggle was the rear Annekee on my Transalp, maybe the slight off road bias means they're stiffer?

One tip I've found invaluable is never try to fit a cold tyre, if you can't leave it out in the sun for an hour, stand it next to a fan heater. I've even been known to use my wife's hair drier to ease the last tight spot over the rim.

I still wouldn't try it at the side of the road though, like I said earlier, not all my bikes have easily detachable wheels. Plus I have decent tools at home, including a bead breaker and a good pair of car tyre levers, (originally from an FX4 Taxi if I remember correctly), plus a mini compressor to blow the tyre up after.

I want to say that as I've only had two punctures in over 40 years and I would guess well over 200,000 miles on two wheels that it seems a very slight risk to worry about,,,,,,,,,,

I want to say that, but that would be tempting fate, wouldn't it?
Posted: 11:45pm 13th April, 2017
Rattlebattle Subject: 2017 C5 tyres
Whilst I used to change tubed type tyres at home I have no chance of successfully removing a tubeless type. These have much stiffer sidewalls. I have neither the strength, technique, nor kit. A puncture out on the road means Tyreweld or similar. If that fails then it's recovery. FWIW my Triumph Thruxton has the same issue. Several of our American chums on the Triumph forum I use have successfully sealed the spoke holes so that they can use their tubeless tyres on spoked rims without inner tubes. I don't fancy that approach myself but it does work, apparently. I have noticed that on the Thruxton at least the temperature of the tyres after a run seems higher than it would be on tubeless tyres without tubes. Not scientific, but it does seem to be the case. Now that the patent has presumably expired, it surprises me that the BMW system is not more widely used. The spokes screw into the outer edges of the rim, meaning that tubeless tyres are fitted without tubes on spoked wheels and that individual spokes can be changed without disturbing the tyre. A good system.
Posted: 01:14pm 14th April, 2017
Edward Subject: 2017 C5 tyres
Removing and refitting tyres is a simple skill easily learned. The recovery option is all very well until you find yourself in an area with no mobile phone signal.
Posted: 05:26pm 14th April, 2017
Beezabryan Subject: 2017 C5 tyres
I used to be quite good at roadside repairs, fortunately not occurred for some years now
 photo belgium 2007 003_zpso9kyfvnb.jpg
BTW the stuff piled up on the rack & on top of the box was being carried for a couple of friends
Posted: 06:59am 15th April, 2017
AndyMc Subject: 2017 C5 tyres
Hi all, Lots of Andys in this post, hope it doesn't get confusing. Edward, perhaps you could post a vid of the easy way to remove tubeless tyres at the roadside it would be very useful to us all.
Posted: 09:15am 15th April, 2017
Rattlebattle Subject: 2017 C5 tyres
Good idea. I've never managed it even in the garage. Maybe that's because I had deep flange Akronts? The rim on my C5 is quite shallow, so it looks as if the tyres would come off more easily. Personally I just wish they'd still make tube tyres.....
Posted: 10:13am 15th April, 2017
Revband Subject: 2017 C5 tyres
"Personally I just wish they'd still make tubed tyres". They do?.
Posted: 12:18pm 15th April, 2017
Rattlebattle Subject: 2017 C5 tyres
Yes, I know. I should have made it clear that I meant modern, high grip and tread pattern tyres like the Avon Roadriders, not Avon Skidmaster "classic" tyres and the like. AFAIK you can't get tube only Roadriders. They are sold as suitable for both but as such have the stiff sidewalls of a tubed tyre. Brilliant tyres though.
Posted: 01:19pm 15th April, 2017
Edward Subject: 2017 C5 tyres
Hi Andy, sadly I am better at tyres than posting videos. I am sure that You Tube has videos. I have removed tubeless tyres by the road side just using short BMW levers on my BMW. It really is not a case of an easy way just the right way and the same as tubed tyres. They require a deal of pressure to seat them on the rim on my bike but a tip I may offer is to use a compressed air canister to seat the tyre, the trick is to remove the valve so there is a very rapid influx of air. You will of course need a couple more canisters to inflate the tyre once the valve is reinserted. I might also add the last time I did this was during a thunderstorm on the remote Coal Road just north of Dent Station. This occasion is what prompted my post about not having a phone signal. I would have phoned recovery on that occasion because of the weather but there was no signal and I was forced to set to. This all refers to a tubeless tyre but fitted with an inner tube. The valve out tip is also useful if you have access to a compressor.
Posted: 03:41pm 15th April, 2017
Andy M Subject: 2017 C5 tyres
We do indeed have the F650 problem:( Any puncture and its gloop and limp home. Utter **** and typical of weekend warrior design philosophies on current bikes. Solutions look to be 1. If a 100/90-19 will fit under the front mudguard tyre choice then includes TT tyres. I have a Heidenau K60 (brilliant tyres with an M&S rating) which I will try for size when I've got it out of the loft. 2. Tubeliss. These are on e-bay UK at 20 quid a pop. They cause tyres to run hot, but these are mostly Californians too lazy to pump up when they come off sand, 100 mph rated tyres run at 60 I think is worth a pop. Needs a hole drilled in the rim which worries me on Enfield paint. Do our hosts sell touch up? They also require the rim to be straight enough to seal when the HP tube pushes the bead up to it. If the PITA Avons have to come off with the hacksaw its an expensive experiment. 3. Heavy duty tubes. Bathroom sealant etc. is not going to happen and I aren't getting into the piles of self assembly laser cut bits of metal that claim to produce roadside bead breakers, I've seen plenty at off road demos working on warm, lubed tyres that get taken off four times a day, but when used in anger they fail. Andy
Posted: 07:37am 19th April, 2017
neddy Subject: 2017 C5 tyres
40YRS riding, 4+ flats , only repair if you have to, if you can be moved in 4hrs, do not bother with "any type of tyre/inner tube repair
Posted: 08:42am 19th April, 2017

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