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350 Trials Bullet '53 Gearing

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350 Trials Bullet '53 Gearing
Started at 11:28am on the 18th July, 2017 by TonyBax
TonyBax Subject: 350 Trials Bullet '53 Gearing
Hi all, back again. Sorry not been on here for a while, too many projects, the Enfield got pushed to the back and covered with junk ! I have now dug her out, and intend to try and get this project finished. To recap, it's a '53 (ish) Redditch Bullet, built up as a trials bike. Though somewhat half-hearted as the footpegs are in the standard position. Previous owner apparently died before finishing the bike, lots of new bits, but badly assembled. The front (engine) sprocket if you remember does not fit the primary chain, very weird, so I am ordering a new sprocket and chain from our hosts. The gearbox sprocket is a 15 tooth (one smaller than standard) and the rear wheel, a 38. The clutch has 56 teeth. I am looking to stick with gearing that is not too low for road use, should I go with the 25 tooth engine sprocket that is standard, (bearing in mind the gearbox sprocket is already one tooth smaller than standard), or would the 22 tooth gearbox sprocket be ok ? That's the next smaller size available. It's almost certainly not going to be low enough for serious trials use, but I intend to get the bike running and road registered before I decide if I shall use it for road or off-road. I don't want to end up paying for a sprocket that's neither low enough for off road, and too low for the road. Cheers, Tony. ps - Mark, you going to be at Kempton this week ? We shall be in the usual place.
Posted: 11:29am 18th July, 2017
Alan R Subject: 350 Trials Bullet '53 Gearing
Hi TONY !!-------- reading through your article I get the impression that maybe a "Green Lane" bike might be the answer ??......Perhaps our "Scaley" can help out here ??
Posted: 11:52am 18th July, 2017
Mark M Subject: 350 Trials Bullet '53 Gearing
Tony, I won't be at Kempton, it is our REOC Home Counties Branch rally this weekend so I shall be there. Remind me your stall number for future reference? As to your question, your rear sprocket at 38T sounds like a Crusader one, (the Bullet std is 46T) which complicates things. My Works Replica relies on the Trials ratios in the gearbox (as sold by our Hosts,) to achieve the gearing you want and I think I'd do it that way. Off road you'll only need 1st and 2nd leaving 3rd and 4th for the road. My WR is happy at 55 mph on the road with a little bit more to come which seems about right on knobbly tyres!

REgards, Mark
Posted: 12:22pm 18th July, 2017
TonyBax Subject: 350 Trials Bullet '53 Gearing
Hi Guys, thanks for the comments. Hmm, that rear sprocket being wrong doesn't help does it ? Mark, do I assume then you have 25/56 - 16/46 ? Mark, stall number is 181, right next to Meriden off-road, enjoy the rally ! I've never tried green laning, so that could be an option. Cheers.
Posted: 12:59pm 18th July, 2017
Mark M Subject: 350 Trials Bullet '53 Gearing
Tony, I think that's what I have, it's a while since I was in there! It seems to work well off road but I've only green-laned it so far. Bear in mind my bike has the 500 flywheels with the alloy 350 top end so has more flywheel effect which also helps. Have a good jumble!

REgards, Mark
Posted: 01:06pm 18th July, 2017
TonyBax Subject: 350 Trials Bullet '53 Gearing
Hi Mark, many thanks, I hope I make a fortune ! Just checked the parts book for '53, and that does have a 38T rear sprocket. I shall perhaps do some calculations for final ratio and see what might work best. Cheers.
Posted: 01:08pm 18th July, 2017
Mark M Subject: 350 Trials Bullet '53 Gearing
Tony, that makes sense. The pre-56 350 and 500 had different rear hubs, the 350 being a 6" and the 500 being a 7". My WR is a 1959 so has the 7"/46T but many modified machines use the earlier rear hub for lightness. I think you should be aiming for the same overall ratio? Could you do it in the gearbox, more expensive but possibly more useful in the long run?

REgards, Mark
Posted: 01:14pm 18th July, 2017
Bullet Whisperer Subject: 350 Trials Bullet '53 Gearing
All the 350's I have seen [and that's a fair few,British and Indian] have 38t on the rear, except for any deliberately altered ones. Some of the later 500's [Redditch] and twins had 46t, as I understand it. Regards, Paul.
Posted: 01:22pm 18th July, 2017
TonyBax Subject: 350 Trials Bullet '53 Gearing
Hi Paul, as Mark says, later full width hub is 46 as standard, the parts books are all on this site, I've just gone through them. I shall have to work out the ratios, then buy the appropriate engine sprocket, and perhaps do what Mark suggested with the gearbox internals that Hitchcocks sell. Cheers.
Posted: 01:29pm 18th July, 2017
TonyBax Subject: 350 Trials Bullet '53 Gearing
Ah, just searching the catalogue and the trials ratio that Hitchcocks offer only apparently fit the '59 to '62 Redditch gearboxes. Anyone know the difference ?
Posted: 04:06pm 18th July, 2017
Charlie Subject: 350 Trials Bullet '53 Gearing
Hi. Have a look at the 'need advice on an engine rebuild' thread last posted today. It looks like the pre 59 box will not take those wide ratio gears. I'm running a 51 Bullet 350 in long distance trials and the standard box works fine, but I do have a 56 tooth rear sprocket! My engine sprocket is 20 tooth not sure about gearbox sprocket will check tomorrow. Cheers Peter
Posted: 05:29pm 24th July, 2017
TonyBax Subject: 350 Trials Bullet '53 Gearing
Hi Charlie, thanks for the info, sorry I have been away. Plus this site doesn't give you a heads up that you have had a reply to a topic. I'll order the standard sprocket and chain, and see how she rides. Cheers.
Posted: 08:14pm 2nd August, 2017
Charlie Subject: 350 Trials Bullet '53 Gearing
Hi Tony My engine sprocket is 15 tooth. Currently investigating whether it is possible to put the later main shaft and layshaft assemblies into the earlier box? Then I could by our hosts wide ratio gear set and give me a little more mph on the tarmac! Cheers Peter
Posted: 11:29am 8th August, 2017
vince Subject: 350 Trials Bullet '53 Gearing
Hi, the later gears will fit, in fact it possible to mix and match provided the two meshed gears are changed. The difference between the early and late is the tooth form. If you are planning to enter competition top gear of 7.5 is about right. 20t engine, 14t gearbox. Vince.
Posted: 04:21pm 8th August, 2017
Charlie Subject: 350 Trials Bullet '53 Gearing
Thanks Vince that's really good information, what rear sprocket would you use with a 14 tooth gearbox sprocket please? I'm looking for a donor box but Inot sure how to identify, the concentric gear change and kick start shafts is one id I think do you know any others please? Cheers.
Posted: 09:12pm 8th August, 2017
vince Subject: 350 Trials Bullet '53 Gearing
Hi, that is using 38t rear sprocket. There were many different internal ratios available at one time. Any heavyweight box will do. Just bear in mind that early Indian boxes are imperial like redditch and later ones are metric. If the box you have is the original with the clutch cable external and the gear change lever up high then that is the type best suited for trials as its narrower. Vince.
Posted: 09:36pm 8th August, 2017
Charlie Subject: 350 Trials Bullet '53 Gearing
Great thanks Vince. Sorry Tony I feel like I've hijacked your thread, good news though the splendid chap at our hosts explained gearbox identification to me today. Look for the stamping on the upper casing, prefix 'H' is pre 1959 whilst prefix 'A' is 1959 & beyond.
Posted: 03:50pm 9th August, 2017
TonyBax Subject: 350 Trials Bullet '53 Gearing
Hey Charlie, no problem, all the info is good, cheers, Tony.
Posted: 08:07pm 11th August, 2017

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