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Oil pump worm and blowing smoke

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Oil pump worm and blowing smoke
Started at 02:48am on the 4th August, 2017 by Creaky45
Creaky45 Subject: Oil pump worm and blowing smoke
My bullet smoked like a chimney on startup the other day but then ran fine after a few minutes. Wet sumping, I assumed as I never bother to leave it at TDC at night and it had not run for a few days. So next night I left it at TDC and in the morning it smoked again but not much. So, not wet sumping I assumed. Took the timing cover off and the rubber seal in the oil pump worm just fell out so oil would have easily leaked round it and into the timing chamber. My mate had a new rubber seal which is a tighter fit so I have fitted that. Also I slit my old one to make a 4mm extension of it so it would compress better in the nut. When I tightened the quill bolt I could feel it squeezing up a bit so I think it should be more effective now and I will report back in the morning. I notice our hosts sell a worm nut with a neoprene seal already stuck in so I may try that. Can anyone tell me if a leakage around this seal will cause smoking and symptoms of wet sumping. Also would any harm have been done regarding feeding oil to the right places.
Posted: 02:48am 4th August, 2017
Bullet Whisperer Subject: Oil pump worm and blowing smoke
Take a look at this, Creaky. Regards, Paul... https://youtu.be/fZf9My8lwKg
Posted: 06:40am 4th August, 2017
papasmurf Subject: Oil pump worm and blowing smoke
Posted: 09:17am 4th August, 2017
Creaky45 Subject: Oil pump worm and blowing smoke
Thanks for the replies. I have watched the Youtube video which is a good one but his problem was oil from the breather. I have the modified Hitchcocks breather system on my 2006 Classic but no oil is coming out there. I just had tons of smoke from the exhaust which settled down after a few minutes. I will start it up in the morning and post the result and if it still smokes we will go from there. I am leaving it on TDC overnight.
Posted: 09:54am 4th August, 2017
Bullet Whisperer Subject: Oil pump worm and blowing smoke
The oil was coming out of the breather on the machine in my video [and all the way into the airbox] because of the same rubber seal being loose in the crank worm nut you are talking about on your machine, Creaky. This allows excees oil into the crankcase, whether the engine is running or not and varying oil levels in the oil tank can produce varying degrees of wet sumping. Replacing this seal, which you say is loose, as per the machine in the video, should fix your problem, too. I find nothing wrong with the original type cork seals, by the way ...
Posted: 10:46am 4th August, 2017
binary Subject: Oil pump worm and blowing smoke
The same thing happened to my worm nut seal. I bought one of Hitchcocks worm nuts with a bonded in neoprene seal and have had no trouble for the last 2 years. I check it at every oil change and it is still going strong. What ever they bond it in with does a brilliant job.
Posted: 10:18pm 4th August, 2017
Creaky45 Subject: Oil pump worm and blowing smoke
I just started it up and there was not a puff of smoke. Fantastic!! Looks like that was the trouble. I may leave it NOT on TDC tonight and see what happens in the morning.
Posted: 10:26pm 4th August, 2017
Leon Novello Subject: Oil pump worm and blowing smoke
Outside Creaky`s house yesterday. robert_zappia_golden_done
upload my image on image website
Posted: 12:37am 5th August, 2017
Creaky45 Subject: Oil pump worm and blowing smoke
Leon, I thought that was you with the camera.
Posted: 09:37pm 5th August, 2017
Creaky45 Subject: Oil pump worm and blowing smoke
Another update. I left the motor on Bottom dead centre for the last 24 hours to give it every chance to wet sump if it felt like it. Just started it up and once again, no smoke at all. So that proves the worn rubber in the worm nut was the problem. Can't believe I've had such a good result at last with this bike but I'll keep it quiet in case it hears and finds something else to go wrong.
Posted: 07:04am 6th August, 2017
Leon Novello Subject: Oil pump worm and blowing smoke
< I'll keep it quiet in case it hears and finds something else to go wrong.> Don`t let the pistons hear about this.
Posted: 07:17am 8th August, 2017
simon Subject: Oil pump worm and blowing smoke
I had the same problem with my bonded quill seal so I made it a new one out of cork. Checked it a couple of times in the last 18 months and its been perfect. Always amuses me when a natural product out performs a modern man made one.
Posted: 12:44am 12th August, 2017
scotty Subject: Oil pump worm and blowing smoke
Hi we had a quill seal go on an iron barrel shortly after a rebuild, hole chewed out to twice the size on new main bearings quill bolt was suspect and replaced think the thin pipe that goes into seal was out of true, be interesting to check one in a lathe to see how true it is if all true should last for ages.
Posted: 05:08am 12th August, 2017
Creaky45 Subject: Oil pump worm and blowing smoke
Simon, The cork sounds good as long as bits of it don't break off and get stuck in oil-ways. What type of cork did you use? Scotty, Good point. I will check it for trueness. The rubber I used was about 5mm thick (long) but when I screwed the quill bolt in I could not feel it was pressing into the worm nut so I sliced about 2mm of my old one and put it on the bolt as a spacer to make up the distance. Then when I screwed in the quill bolt the last few threads had some resistance as the rubber squashed up tight and I think that has done the trick.
Posted: 10:47am 13th August, 2017
scotty Subject: Oil pump worm and blowing smoke
Hi Creaky most gasket kits I have bought recently have a neoprene cork included about10 to 12 mm long and tapered lube with oil and shove it in timing shaft dont go all the way in when fully home about 2mm protrudes this seals on the base of the quill stem, never had much faith in cork seals ok if you got a good bit of cork.
Posted: 10:22am 14th August, 2017
Bullet Whisperer Subject: Oil pump worm and blowing smoke
As mentioned above, I have no problem with the original cork seals and I have just fitted one in a replacement worm nut on the 350 racer. This engine does 9500 rpm flat out and I am not worried that I have a cork seal in the end of the crank. The cork crank seal on the drive side of Redditch engines is pretty crap, though.
Posted: 10:31am 14th August, 2017
Charlie Subject: Oil pump worm and blowing smoke
I fitted a lip seal on the drive side of my 51 G2, had to shave a little off the sprocket to make space.
Posted: 11:07am 14th August, 2017
Bullet Whisperer Subject: Oil pump worm and blowing smoke
Hi Charlie, yes it is a good modification and makes the engine breathing system work much better. I have done a few by removing the circular lip which locates the steel washer and cork seal and fitting Norton Commando fork seals, which are steel backed, making a good press in fit. I didn't have to modify the [spline type] sprockets, but had to slim down the spacer inboard of it a little, so as not to be too tight a fit in the seal. Regards, Paul.
Posted: 01:40pm 14th August, 2017

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