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2000 350 Overcharging

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2000 350 Overcharging
Started at 05:33pm on the 9th October, 2017 by Super45
Super45 Subject: 2000 350 Overcharging
Afternoon All Phil here with a tatty troublesome 2000 350 Bullet that i suspect has been owned by several luddites over the years and has suffered in its 35,000 kms its reached to date Long story short the bike has been been rewired at some point due to allegedly a short in the right hand switch gear and ignition switch ( it is hpi clear) which lead it to being hot wired over to get it running and then the next owner rewired it completely before selling it on with next to no miles under its belt between mot's to me so I which i suspect is because the head gasket was peeing oil everywhere but i digress some of you may have seen the issue over on the midland bullet forums Currently the bike is overcharging buy some considerable amount, when i first noticed it was putting ut 15.1v at idle rising to 15.6 when reved dropping to 14.9 and 14.7 with the dip beam lit New combined reg/rec was ordered off ebay to replace the same and was duly fitted and showed the same results as above! just to rule it out i bought a good second hand set of the original separate reg/rec boxes which when fitted reduce the voltage somewhat to 15.1 when revved and 14.9 at idle with my limited electrical skills ive tested what earth cables i can see and all have made the beep sound on my multimeter i intend to borrow a second metre and double check all readings but my skills are very limited with electrical wizardry! now the only thing i can think that i could of done wrong was when i when i was re routing my throttle cable back through the casket ( it had been left to dangle ) to go under the tank (before i found it overcharging) i must have touched something electrical in their with the end of the cable as there was a small spark from around the ammeter area currently when ignition switched on with kicking over the bike to find TDC it reads positive with ignition on ( not running ) but reads negative when the bikes running but battery is obviously still overcharging has anyone ever seen this before? i know the answer would probably be to throw a B/B power box at it but if 2 new reg recs and a good used set are still allowing it to over charge then it suggests that something else is wrong and a power box could just mask things any help would be most appreciated on thing I could check ( with electrical limited knowledge ) Thanks in advance Phil
Posted: 05:33pm 9th October, 2017
stinkwheel Subject: 2000 350 Overcharging
First thing. Is it actually overcharging? Maybe by a bit but not by a lot. My modern Japanese bike puts out 14.5v when revved up, I consider this to be a good thing. Over 15 is a tad high though. Where's the ammeter sitting with the engine running? Is it on or just slightly to the green side of the centre or is it way into the green. I've had a reg/rec go duff and the first sign was the ammeter swinging WAY into the green.

Are you measuring this voltage at the battery with the battery connected? Voltage varies in different parts of the loom.

Is your meter reading correctly? I ask because a solid-state reg/rec should either work or not work at all, not regulate voltage a little on the high side. What's your resting battery voltage?

Also check the reg/rec has a good, solid earth connection, it uses this to dump excess voltage and can't if the connection is poor.

Something else that stands out is you say the voltage drops significantly with the headlight on. But shouldn't a 2000 350 have an AC/DC system. As such, the headlight shouldn't affect the charging output to any significant degree. Does the headlamp only come on with the engine running (like it should)? Has someone pinched both phases for charging?

Of course, if you've replaced an Indian regulator with an Indian reg/rec off ebay, it could also be dodgy. You could always fit a second hand one off a Japanese bike (try and find one that's a switch-mode/mosfet type). I did a comprehensive how-to on this a few years back on instructables. It's been on my bike ever since.
Posted: 07:15pm 9th October, 2017
stinkwheel Subject: 2000 350 Overcharging
Link to instructable: http://www.instructables.com/id/Fit-a-Japanese-Regulator-Rectifier-unit-to-a-12v-A/
Posted: 07:16pm 9th October, 2017
Super45 Subject: 2000 350 Overcharging
Hi Stink wheel I was advised to borrow a tester to double check readings on the midland bullets forum so will be borrowing one when available, Ampneter when running flits between the first part of - and + so somewhere in the middle but oscillates too fast to say if its one or the other the all voltages tests were done on the battery itself when wired in and the base voltage was 12.35, a little on the low side but within acceptable and its a yasusa battery so a good brand. the all 3 reg rec ive now tried have been bolted firmly to the cross bar that sits beneath the seat and all bolts and connections to the actual frame and loom are clean and good think this one is the AC/DC system so has separate headlight supply and yes only comes on when running. Thinking about it there is a wire running from the casquette under the tank which attached to the negative terminal in addition to the one which leads from the main earth terminal and the main loom from the behind the battery could this have wired incorrectly to the battery terminal instead of the main earth point so adding additional charge from the headlight system? Thanks for link will check
Posted: 09:13am 10th October, 2017
stinkwheel Subject: 2000 350 Overcharging
Not uncommon to run an extra earth from the headlight area to the battery because it's earthing through the bearings.

A direct connection to the battery negative is electrically the same as a connection to the frame earth

Your reg/rec earths through the black wire, not the connection to the frame. Just make sure this has a good solid connection to earth. You can test this with a multimeter set to measure resistance, test between the black wire and the battery negative. It should give a reading of almost zero.
Posted: 09:34am 10th October, 2017
Super45 Subject: 2000 350 Overcharging
Ive tested the 2 wires that are attached to the earth post on the battery, I set the multimeter ( rightly or wrongly ) to beep when connection is made and tested both putting the negative lead on the com lead on the frame earth point and the red lead to the end of the wire when it bolts to the battery, both wires caused a beep but didn't take note of the reading on the screen I didnt go as far up as the reg rec connector on the os of the bike itself as didn't have wiring diagram to hand to know which one to test i just tested those two wires using the framE earth point but i know from previous tests there is a power supply to the connector with the bike running and the reg rec disconnected, I realise I may have used the wrong setting on the multimeter as im a complete electrical novice ( despite a 3 year car mechanics apprenticeship!) give me a spanner and i know what im doing but electrics are some kind of wizardry to me! I've just looked at the photocopied manual I have and it says "The control circuit of regulator rectifier unit monitors the battery voltage and regulates the charging current to the battery according to pre-set regulating range (Range: old: 13.8 volts to 14.6 volts. New: maximum of 15.5 volts" from the looks of it the "new" is referring to the post '95 models so appears that my highest figure with the original supplied reg rec of 15.6v was only just outside of the spec RE themselves stipulate
Posted: 10:49am 10th October, 2017
Adrian Subject: 2000 350 Overcharging
The extra earth wire from the casquette is a good idea for the two side lights and the speedo light, as these are still on the DC circuit.

The AC lighting covers only the headlamp bulb and the headlamp high beam warning light, and both should have the amber/orange wire as the AC return rather than an earth wire.

A.
Posted: 03:10pm 10th October, 2017
Super45 Subject: 2000 350 Overcharging
Main and dip beam work but the warning light never has since buying it but it is connected so assume it's just the bulb has gone No idea if the speedo back light works as never had it running in the dark Will have to look at colours as not noticed What would be next stage if the earth test checks out on the reg/reg connection and earth wire?
Posted: 01:40pm 11th October, 2017
Revband Subject: 2000 350 Overcharging
If the battery drops to 12.35 after charging it is not a good battery, a duff battery does not hold the charge voltage down as a good one will and that could be the reason for your higher voltage when the bike is running.Note I said charge voltage and not current, there is a big difference
Posted: 05:00pm 11th October, 2017
Super45 Subject: 2000 350 Overcharging
Thanks Rev Band I was always taught that anything below 12 meant a duff battery, the 12.35 was just a snap measurement across the terminals the other day ive not charged it with an external charger since i bought it early this year will check it out Thanks
Posted: 08:49am 12th October, 2017
Revband Subject: 2000 350 Overcharging
A good battery will show 12.6v 24 hours after charging provided it has no load on it. The lower the voltage drops the worse the battery is,
Posted: 06:17pm 12th October, 2017
Super45 Subject: 2000 350 Overcharging
So in essence test the standard battery voltage if its low ( not touched it in over a week now) then replace the battery as the system could be over compensating for lack of charge in the cells would it be worth putting it on a charger and then retest?
Posted: 01:52pm 13th October, 2017
Revband Subject: 2000 350 Overcharging
Yes give it a full charge then leave it 24 hours and check the voltage it should be 12.6 12.8 for a good battery.
Posted: 04:40pm 13th October, 2017
Super45 Subject: 2000 350 Overcharging
Ok so resting voltage after the bikes not moved in a week or been rtouched was 12.31v that's on the bike and plugged in, will remove and charge and retest once i get home The tested the reg/rec earth connector using multimeter on the 200k setting between the black earth wire in the connector black to the earth wire at the earth point which showed up as zero so i'm assuming this means no breaks and all is good removed the wires from the main earth and gave the earth point a good clean scraping more paint off then reattached and made sure it was tight started bike and reattached the reg/rec and the voltage at idle came up better at 14.91 without lights on and 14.83 with the lights on so has dropped which is good but still too much, forgot to test when it was rev'd up as was running out of time
Posted: 09:01am 16th October, 2017

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