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More 535 Thoughts.

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More 535 Thoughts.
Started at 09:03am on the 29th October, 2017 by Tomshayes
Tomshayes Subject: More 535 Thoughts.
Hi again all. Well now that I've opened a can of worms I am wondering where to go re bottom end.Top end will be 8.5:1 535 w 32mm AMAL 900 Concenttric. I was going to retain standard gearing i.e 17 Tooth. It seems to me there are a few options, I'm not a racer so prolonged flat out hi speeds aren't a real issue.. 1) Retain existing standard Indian bottom end (Possibly with compression plate to lower comp a little).. 2) Improved ALLOY CONROD 2) Steel conrod retaining existing flywheels and Big End 3) Steel Conrod and Roller Bearing with original flywheels 4) Complete new 500 Crankshaft 5) New 570 crankshaft with Compression plate ..612cc The cost of option 4 and 5 being the same,,, If I fork out for new 500 crank then 670 would seem just as viable financially but what are the other advantages other than more cubes / torque Any thoughts before I commit the wallet would be useful. REgards Tom
Posted: 09:03am 29th October, 2017
Tomshayes Subject: More 535 Thoughts.
Typo 570..
Posted: 09:04am 29th October, 2017
Bullet Whisperer Subject: More 535 Thoughts.
You could do what I put in my answer to your other thread, but also - lighten the flywheels - this makes a huge difference to acceleration, power, speed and even braking. The main bearings also get an easier life and you will NOT lose bottom end power, or torque, it is just a case of win, win, win, you will lose NOTHING!
Posted: 09:35am 29th October, 2017
Tomshayes Subject: More 535 Thoughts.
Great Paul You've been a great help. Well that's me told lol. On the road for the spring. Cheers again Tom
Posted: 10:41am 29th October, 2017
Valsp Subject: More 535 Thoughts.
Its not all plain sailing. Lightened flywheels are useful in performance engines as the revs can increase and decrease more quickly. The momentum in the engine is maintained with a heavy flywheel. With a lightened flywheel the momentum is reduced and a hill has much more effect on the engine output. The engine also needs to be tuned to match the lightened flywheel. You don't want to go too light or your tick over may suffer. You will also need to have the flywheel properly balanced if you do reduce the weight
Posted: 11:24am 29th October, 2017
Revband Subject: More 535 Thoughts.
Option 6 is probably best, 6), trade it in for a bike that does what you want.
Posted: 12:10pm 29th October, 2017
Bullet Whisperer Subject: More 535 Thoughts.
Valsp, a few pounds removed from a very heavy flywheel still leaves you with a heavy flywheel. The tickover and hill climbing abilities do not suffer, you will get up hills more quickly. As I mentioned elsewhere, I rebalance the flywheels after lightening them. There really is nothing to lose and everything to gain from doing this, but I don't care if no one wants to believe it.
Posted: 01:15pm 29th October, 2017
Tomshayes Subject: More 535 Thoughts.
Hi Paul I've seen you fly around Lydden so I'm with you mate lol. What weight do you reduce the flywheels by? Or what diameter do you decrease them to? I assume you turn them down assembled on a lathe? My mate Mark will probably be doing the bottom end work(You've met him BSA A65 Cafe Racer). If not is this something that you could do?.. Mark is concerned that his press might not be man enough.. I'm not looking at putting it on the road before Spring March / April time. I'm putting my 53 Meteor back together first. As Standard lol.. The Bullet is my Hack.. The Meteor is for sunny days and shows etc.. REgards Tom
Posted: 01:49pm 29th October, 2017
Valsp Subject: More 535 Thoughts.
Bullet whisperer you have far more knowledge of the Bullet than I do and I don't doubt you but the one thing I can't understand is why would any manufacturer waste money on using more material than necessary so why did Royal Enfield design the engine with such a heavy flywheel? As you say lightening the flywheel does reduce the demands on the bottom end so it does not make any sense to make it heavier than required
Posted: 01:53pm 29th October, 2017
Bullet Whisperer Subject: More 535 Thoughts.
Valsp, I think the simple answer goes back to the days when the Bullet was a new design and sidecars were often bolted on to such machines. You would get a smoother standing start from your fully laden double adult Bullet outfit than you would if it had lighter flywheels. Incidentally, the Redditch 500 Bullets' cranks are about 3 or 4 lbs heavier than their Indian counterparts in standard form, but reducing an Indian crank assembly from about 22lbs to 19lbs still leaves you with something you would not want to drop on your foot and still a lot heavier than what you would probably find in an XBR 500, or similar. Also, a lot of people seem to confuse torque with flywheel effect and when you lighten the flywheels, you do not lose torque or bottom end power, but you will lose some flywheel effect, which is what gives a quicker standing start and acceleration etc. Regards, Paul.
Posted: 02:43pm 29th October, 2017
Alan R Subject: More 535 Thoughts.
Talking about a Honda XBR 500 this one is still for sale}-------------BILD0188
Posted: 05:11pm 29th October, 2017
another Allan Subject: More 535 Thoughts.
I'm puzzled, Tom. Why would you retain a 17 tooth gearbox sprocket? It sounds like you want to get far more power than standard from your engine and so it should comfortably pull higher gearing. You may not want to do 100 mph, but it's nice to be able to cruise at 65-70 mph with the revs at about 4000, as my bike does with a 20 tooth sprocket. When I fit the 5-speed gearbox I'm going to try a 21 tooth. It may be a step too far - we'll see! (btw, it's a Tollgate Classics 625 engine.)
Posted: 08:15am 30th October, 2017
Alan R Subject: More 535 Thoughts.
Hi guys--- yes my line of thinking as well Another Allen.........Hi TOM, once you have your desired type of power output I think you'll find that, as A.Allen says cruising at 65-70 MPH is probably it's best benefit followed closely by better acceleration and ---- dare I say it ??----improved economy !!

Just the act of fitting a 5-speed box will immediately do away with that HUMUNGUS <................................> GAP that exists between 3rd. and 4th. gear on the 4-speed box and daily riding in modern traffic becomes a pleasure once more...But alas, that's NOT the end of our venture into high(er) power and thus performance....It must be considered as a whole package so things such as the rolling chassis, the tyres, the rear shocks, the braking system's performance etc. all come into play....Indeed, there is a school of thought that says you ought to do all of this in reverse order !!....ie}-- prepare your bike first for the increased performance that's about to follow...

Finally if I might add to BW's comments ??........Technically Torque is defined as the turning effect about a fixed point or fulcrum...So with your crankpin permanently set at "x" mm from the crankshaft centre then there is that "Torque not lost" Paul referred to.....Another word for "Flywheel effect" is Momentum and that is the product of Mass multiplied by velocity....Therefore if you alter either ( or both ) of these you will get a permanent change in the case of Mass, or a variable change in the case of velocity.....In our case Velocity is known generally as RPM....( Or to get really technical it's measured in RADIANS per second..( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radian )...So as you can see that when you are sat at the traffic lights anxiously blipping the throttle and "Keen-for-the-Green" you are actually altering your Flywheel effect yet keeping the designed Torque at a constant...
Posted: 09:38am 30th October, 2017
Alan R Subject: More 535 Thoughts.
Some additional info}-------- From my last rantings, you might ask "If only we had an adjustable stroke big-end we could have adjustable torque"..........OK a bit far-fetched maybe but the principle does exist within the workings of the humble Shaping Machine..Have a look at this}----------------

Crank_and_Slotted_Link_Mechanism
Posted: 11:52pm 30th October, 2017
Alan R Subject: More 535 Thoughts.
The length of stroke of the ram is altered by adjusting the position of the crank pin closer or further to the Bull Gear centre.....Alas the down side is that due to the Whitworth effect the ram returns faster than it goes forwards so no good for our needs...But technically interesting none the less...
Posted: 11:57pm 30th October, 2017
Tomshayes1 Subject: More 535 Thoughts.
I have the 53 Meteor for cruising! Tom
Posted: 02:44pm 31st October, 2017
Tomshayes1 Subject: More 535 Thoughts.
Ive no issue with lowering the gearing as long as the engine revs out! Tom
Posted: 02:50pm 31st October, 2017
Tomshayes1 Subject: More 535 Thoughts.
How do I upload photos?
Posted: 07:10pm 31st October, 2017
Alan R Subject: More 535 Thoughts.
Hi TOM---------this from another thread for IMG BB}--(https://imgbb.com/)-

Hi ARTY------- try this}--1) At their home page entitled-- "UPLOAD AND SHARE YOUR IMAGES.".. go to the bottom of the page and left clik onto the blue box entitled--- "START UPLOADING"....2) Select your image, left clik onto it..This will take you into the next page which is entitled...."EDIT OR RESIZE ANY IMAGE BY CLICKING THE IMAGE PREVIEW"...Below this will be your image and below that is a Green box with UPLOAD in it......3) This will take you into the next page entitled UPLOADING and then eventually the next page which has at the top a green circle with a white tick in it...below that it says "UPLOAD COMPLETE." ... below that is your image and below that says "EMBED CODES".. left click on Viewer Links for a drop-down menu.....Click onto "HTML Full linked"...Hover your pointer over the lower, longer box and you will see "COPY" appear in it's top right hand corner.....Left click on that and the long box will momentarily glow a yellow colour.....4) You now go to the Hitchcocks page that you are writing in and "Click and paste" in the normal way.....The HTML code will now appear in your text BUT will change to a photo when you finally click "POST REPLY" ... It might take you a bit of time to start with so don't forget to "Save" it all before posting the reply or you'll find you've been timed -out and lost the lot !! ( Ask me how I know that bit of info !! )
Posted: 08:04pm 31st October, 2017
Tomshayes Subject: More 535 Thoughts.
Errr I'll try
Posted: 08:10pm 31st October, 2017

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