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Misfiring and MIL

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Misfiring and MIL
Started at 08:12pm on the 30th May, 2018 by oldnick
oldnick Subject: Misfiring and MIL
Hi again. B5 EURO-4 started misfiring a few rides ago at low throttle settings but runs OK at higher throttle. Has got progressively worse but no MIL light initially. Today, missing badly at low settings so I stopped and switched off. On restarting MIL light permanently on but strangely misfiring had disappeared on 15 mile ride home. Dignostic blink test shows 6 short blinks of MIL - Throttle position sensor. Have measured output voltage from sensor 0.59v at throttle closed and 3.77v fully open which seems to match specification. MIL light still on and stays on after attempt to reset. Advice on what to try next much appreciated. One odd observation which might be irrelevant - a couple weeks ago for some reason I started the engine with bike on sidestand. The MIL light came on but it did start (thought it wasn't possible). The engine ran roughly for a mile. On stopping and switching off, MIL light went out and normality resumed until the misfiring this past week.
Posted: 08:12pm 30th May, 2018
Jack the Lad Subject: Misfiring and MIL
This sounds similar to the symptoms mine had when the reg/rect was failing. Worth checking - lots of how to videos on YouTube, it's the same for any modern-ish bike. You need a multimeter though.
Posted: 10:04pm 30th May, 2018
Haggis Subject: Misfiring and MIL
MIL glows continuously, engine WILL start. LONG 0 – SHORT 6 TPS LONG 0 – SHORT 9 MAP sensor LONG 1 – SHORT 1 Oil temp. sensor LONG 1 – SHORT 7 O2 sensor LONG 4 – SHORT 5 O2 sensor heater I think you need to double check every connector.🔧
Posted: 10:02am 31st May, 2018
Wayne Subject: Misfiring and MIL
Am I missing soemthing here? - the bike can barely be a few months old - take it back to your dealer - its under warranty !
Posted: 11:07am 31st May, 2018
Rattlebattle Subject: Misfiring and MIL
What Haggis said. My C5 had the same symptoms; it turned out to be a loose connection between the TPS and the main wiring loom. FWIW the fault code showed a faulty crank position sensor according to DOL ( the dealer’s diagnostic software). Apparently this fault code can occur even though the fault lies elsewhere. I was told that this is because without for example a working TPS input the ECU has no idea how to fuel the engine so it displays a serious fault. This may be rubbish but remaking the TPS connection remains bed the crank position sensor fault. Whatever, check all the sensor input connections.
Posted: 12:35pm 31st May, 2018
Rattlebattle Subject: Misfiring and MIL
Hope you can make sense of that - bl**dy predictive text...
Posted: 12:37pm 31st May, 2018
oldnick Subject: Misfiring and MIL
Rattlebattle - I am never sure whether your typing errors are just errors or indicative of your colourful language. Could take back to dealer but it's in central Glasgow (50 miles away) and logistics not easy so it's a last resort. Checked all connections and output from TPS within spec. MIL light still on when engine started. As I said earlier, I was suspicious about the sidestand circuit. On the Euro-4 you can start the engine with sidestand down but it cuts out when gear engaged. But the MIL light had com on when I had done that a few weeks ago and the handbook says not to do it. So, using homeopathic logic (crap), I repeated the exercise starting bike with stand down and the MIL light went out and stayed out on repeated start-ups. Yet to road test. Very weird.
Posted: 02:19pm 31st May, 2018
Wayne Subject: Misfiring and MIL
On the new E4 models and Himalayans - you need 3 cold starts for the MIL lamp to go out, it may not cancel straight away. I took the tank off mine and when refitted - the MIL lamp came on - after a couple of starts - it went away, you may have fixed the problem and not know it yet.
Posted: 03:56pm 31st May, 2018
Rattlebattle Subject: Misfiring and MIL
Predictive text issue.... Anyway, one of the first things I did on my 2015 C5 was to disable the sidestand switch. Just about every forum I’ve been on for different makes of bikes has mentioned problems with misfiring attributable to this, in my view unnecessary, annoyance. Inevitably the switch gets covered in all sorts of road filth until it contacts only intermittently. FWIW my nearest dealer is now a fair way away, the supplying dealer having given up s year or so back. Coverage in the U.K. is pretty patchy I’m afraid.
Posted: 04:21pm 31st May, 2018
zonggong Subject: Misfiring and MIL
My new 2018 Euro 4 C5 didn't even make it the 30 kms home from the dealer before it stopped. No MIL light. It continued stopping (the engine that is) at irregular intervals sometimes going for 50 kms before stopping and other times stopping every couple of kms. It always restarted, but this is not much help on the highway with a B double truck behind. After 3 trips back to the dealer, when he had the bike longer than I had, they had 1. removed the side stand switch (made no difference) , 2. looked for a fuel tank vent blockage (didn't make any difference) and, eventually, after it had been picked up for the 3rd time seemed to find a problem with the side stand switch relay and/or the ECU relay. Both of these were replaced and I was able to ride it home without stopping. I believe both of these relays are in the LH side toolbox with the fuses. One of the problems the dealer had in trying to isolate a fault (no MIL light ) was the lack of a wiring diagram.... this being a new model. If it is still playing up you may want to have a look at these relays and make sure they are fitted correctly. This bike also has a roll sensor under the seat which is something to do with the ABS. Another bike had a problem with this which I think caused cutting out.
Posted: 11:58am 4th June, 2018
Rattlebattle Subject: Misfiring and MIL
Interesting. I doubt that the anti-roll sensor has anything to do with the ABS system. The one on the RE is basic by modern standards and doesn’t work while cornering. The higher-end bikes that have cornering ABS use an IMU (inertia measurement unit) which basically tells the ABS control unit the angle at which the bike is sitting. I believe the sensor you are referring to is probably the one that cuts the ignition if the angle of the bike is more than a pre-determined limit. It is a safety feature to stop the engine revving itself into oblivion should the rider crash and the throttle stick open. This isn’t unique to the Euro IV bikes; my 2015 has one. And, yes, they have been known to cause issues so it could be that. I had thought (hoped) that the better QA of the Euro IV bikes had put to rest the gremlins caused by el cheapo relays and fuses and their connections. Oh well. I’m sure we’d all love to know what the problem turns out to be.
Posted: 10:31pm 4th June, 2018
oldnick Subject: Misfiring and MIL
Since the MIL light went out when I lowered the sidestand, I have ridden about 50 miles without further problems. With the ignition on, you can hear the two relays in the LH tool box operate as you raise and lower the sidestand. I have not lowered the sidestand with the engine running since or started it with the stand down. I still think that starting with the stand down confused the ECU somehow and it took a few starts for this to clear. Of course,I also checked all the sensor connections too but it is odd that the misfiring started when I did something I had never done before -start on sidestand.
Posted: 04:13pm 8th June, 2018
ric Subject: Misfiring and MIL
Just as a preventative measure, it's best to adjust the side stand switch so it cant engage/disengage until it's traveled at least half way through its arc of movement.
Posted: 10:20am 9th June, 2018
sofiaspin Subject: Misfiring and MIL
I have a Euro 4 C% from the same dealer. Hosts exhaust system which retains the O2 sensor, and K&N filter, plus the Air injection elimination kit. Running fine then like yours, last Wed stuttering and dying at low throttle from the off - I revved it and it popped and misfired. Persevered and it ran fine after about 5 minutes and then onto the motorway. Started it yesterday, seemed OK - and I narrowed the spark plug gap which looked far too wide. Arrived at pal's house, and then same stuttering began, and surging, happened twice more AFTER stopping and on to side stand. I was thinking of the performance kit and power commander to get things set up properly as I thought it was a fuelling issue. Can you explain what to do to 'clear' the sidestand issue, if that was the problem?
Posted: 02:51pm 10th June, 2018
oldnick Subject: Misfiring and MIL
After a few days of misfiring and after checking sensor connections, the MIL light was still on. I then started the engine with the sidestand down (which is what I had done when the MIL light first came on) and the light went out and I have had a few runs since without misfiring. I have avoided starting or running the engine with the stand down. Of course, it could be just coincidence and the MIL light may just have cleared itself anyway. But it was odd that the problem started when I started the engine with the stand down - a thing I had never done before.
Posted: 08:28pm 10th June, 2018
zonggong Subject: Misfiring and MIL
My 2018 Euro IV C5 has what appears to be a PAV (pulse air valve) on the front of the cylinder. i understand this is supposed to re-direct unburnt/partially burnt fuel back to the intake and operates at speed and not when idling. I'm suspicious of add ons like this as it reminds me of the 70's when cars were coming out with environmental stuff bolted on resulting in sub par performance. When my bike was playing up I wondered if this could have had something to do with it but the dealer and importer were not familiar with it. I also understand some Electras had a similar item and that it was possible to remove and blank off the port.
Posted: 08:31am 11th June, 2018
Haggis Subject: Misfiring and MIL
Your "pav" feeds air into the exhaust port to help burn any unburned mixture that might be there to help clean up the emissions. It's not an EGR valve which is used on some cars to recirculate a small portion of exhaust gases back to the intake manifold. Yes, your pav can be removed.
Posted: 09:03am 11th June, 2018
Wayne Subject: Misfiring and MIL
While the bike is at a standstill - different to previous models - it will start with the sidestand down, it will only cut out if you try and pull away.
Posted: 10:09am 11th June, 2018
sofiaspin Subject: Misfiring and MIL
Yes, they do an AI elimination kit, and I have it on my Euro 4 - it tidies up the front end and has no bearing on running. Had it on my Electra X as you say, http://accessories.hitchcocksmotorcycles.com/accessory-shop/Air-Injection-Delete-Kit/38147
Posted: 11:43am 11th June, 2018
Rattlebattle Subject: Misfiring and MIL
It seems to be similar to the SAI system on the air/oil cooled Triumph twins now superseded by the l/c ones. A lot of owners, including me, disable or remove it with no ill effect. If I had a Euro IV C5 that’s what I’d do.
Posted: 09:44pm 11th June, 2018

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