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Lost gears possibly clutch related?

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Lost gears possibly clutch related?
Started at 12:35pm on the 24th July, 2018 by Super45
Super45 Subject: Lost gears possibly clutch related?
So some of you may read on the MBR forum that on my 2000 350 ive curently got a cracked inner and outer primary case as the clutch centre nut hadnt been tighteded correctly and neither had the 3 clutch spring bolts which had made a bid for freedome gouging a grove in the outter case so appologies for the repitition if youve alread read this. clutch was noisey and handnt run the bike asince i notices this and at same time seemd to loose some gears like 1st and second, this was some weeks ago and when i removed the bike from garage over weekend the gears seemd to of reappeard just from leaving the bike standing which is very strange so clutch strip occured sunday, found plates in slightly wrong order so will be correcting that gave the clutch rod a bit of grease and rebuilt it then decided to ( rightly or wrongly ( to investgate under the gearbox end cover, all levers and washers positions noted and stiped off to have a butchers inside at the mechanisms, clutch arm and bearing stipped cleaned and greased as there had obviously been some water down though the casing hole at some point couldnt see much else to fiddle with ( sides noting the gearlever play as mentioned in my other forum post seems to stem from what seems to be play in the bearings underneath the shaft spline but not sure if is normal) so I rebuilt the casing with extra dab of grease on the clutch arm ball where it meets the pushrod for good measure Rebuilt the outter casing and this is where thw trouble started... every lever and bolt went back in the same place ( even the neutral finder adjuster cam I left the dirty mark on where it was previsouly so was able to put it back exactly ) but despite cylicng easily through the gears by hand as it was removed out of the garaage after removing the casing and the clutch strip I seemed to have lost 4th( According to the neutral finder as it wont point to 4th ) and some other gears were a lot more dificult to select, I double checked my lever positions and they were exactly as I left them amnd even kikced the bike over incase it ws just in the wrong position within the box to be able to select but still no change or with clutch in or out so does it sound like? A) the clutch needs to be rebuilt in correct order ( 2 plates n wrong place according to diagrams) and adjusted for correct free play before worrying as it may just be that? or B) An intermitent selector issue within the gearbox / outter selector mechanisms or the selectro shafgt bearings on the lay shft that the gear elver botls to that occasionally allows full set of gears with no issues and on others it wont select anything? All further help glady appreciated as I cant see that ive done anything wrong when reasembling the levers etc just seems strange that i have lost and regained gears in space of afternoon, selector mechanism wasnt touched when end cover removed only the clutch cable arm
Posted: 12:35pm 24th July, 2018
Super45 Subject: Lost gears possibly clutch related?
Appolgies for spelling, fat fingers on small laptop keyboard
Posted: 12:38pm 24th July, 2018
Adrian Subject: Lost gears possibly clutch related?
Sorry if this is not much help with your gearbox, but if desk-top space permits, a cheap USB mouse and separate keyboard will ease your typing pain. A.
Posted: 02:31pm 24th July, 2018
stinkwheel Subject: Lost gears possibly clutch related?
Lost 4th gear? Make sure the gear lever isn't hitting the footpeg. Don't ask how long I took to work this one out!

Should I imply you're not dynamically testing this. ie, the engine isn't running? I'd try it with the engine running before making any rash decisions about how the gearbox is working. You can run it for a reasonable time (long enough to test the gearbox is working in any case) without putting the primary cover back on.
Posted: 02:32pm 24th July, 2018
Super45 Subject: Lost gears possibly clutch related?
Thanksd Adrian will look to invest @Stinkwheel thanks will look at lever position and will try it running , just seems strange that ive lost 4th where as originally id lost 1st and 2nd, then it fixes itself after a fortnight in garage and the lever to my knowledge is on the same spline as it was before I took the cover off
Posted: 03:38pm 24th July, 2018
Super45 Subject: Lost gears possibly clutch related?
Ok update, with bike running clutch drags bad enough that the bike stalls as soon as you engage first adjuster on clutch arm is stuck so cover needs to come off again to free it up, all levers free and don’t strike exhaust or the foot peg Unable to locate 4th and other gears take a couple of attempts However... when trying to cycle the gears by hand I pressed on kickstart( not running) and it found 4th all of sudden but then wouldn’t find neutral on way back down box seems selector gets stuck as lever won’t move further on correct direction as if it hits something yet feels free when it does drop into gear you selected Any advice welcome
Posted: 08:59pm 24th July, 2018
vince Subject: Lost gears possibly clutch related?
Hi, check the mainshaft nut has come undone (lefthand thread) . Vince
Posted: 10:27pm 24th July, 2018
Super45 Subject: Lost gears possibly clutch related?
Hi vince How would I go about that? Is it easily accessible? Thanks
Posted: 08:48am 25th July, 2018
vince Subject: Lost gears possibly clutch related?
Hi, I assume we are talking about a 4 speed box. Remove outer cover. Remove the domed cover where the clutch pushrod protude from. Bear in mind the kickstart spring is attached to one of the bolts. Under this cover you will find the mainshaft secured by a lefthand threaded nut.if this nut is loose the mainshaft can float which affects gear selection. Also while there check the bearing which can also allow movement if worn. To clarify if the mainshaft can float, as you move the clutch pushrod the mainshaft and clutch will just move together and you will not get full clutch release. Vince
Posted: 09:13am 25th July, 2018
Super45 Subject: Lost gears possibly clutch related?
Thanks Vince will have a butchers and yes 4 speed I did have to tighten the clutch basket nut as basket was moving around which i belive was part of the issue in the first place with the clutch vibrating itself loose so stands to reason other end might be the same also If the bolt ends up being tight are there any other options?
Posted: 09:39am 25th July, 2018
Leon Novello Subject: Lost gears possibly clutch related?
The purpose of a left-hand threaded nut is to ensure the nut does NOT come loose, but will tend to tighten. Has someone in the design department got it wrong?
Posted: 10:05am 25th July, 2018
Super45 Subject: Lost gears possibly clutch related?
I'ts more likely my bike thats the issue than a design fault since purchase last year ive come to conclusion its been severely starved of maintenance in its 23,000 miles and ,judging by the amount of rust on it its been someones winter bike, ive discovered loads of bodges, poor maintnenae loose or missing bolts etc whilst sorting the issues its had so this is just one in a long list
Posted: 10:42am 25th July, 2018
stinkwheel Subject: Lost gears possibly clutch related?
My understanding is that the nuts don't and wont tighten themselves, the reverse threaded nut will simply help prevent it loosening itself by mechanical precession but it is unlikely to get tighter than when it was put on. If there is a lot of play about, it can come loose, just like any other fastener.

So I'd say the nut on the other end IS worth a check. If the clutch centre nut became loose, it stands to reason the gearbox mainshaft nut could also have become loose by the same mechanism.
Posted: 10:51am 25th July, 2018
Super45 Subject: Lost gears possibly clutch related?
Thanks Stinkwheel will check the nut is tight and report back Someone has had the clutch apart before and the washer was missing from behind the nyloc nutwhich I suspect is what started the issue
Posted: 10:55am 25th July, 2018
vince Subject: Lost gears possibly clutch related?
Hi, if it's not the nut check if the selector springs have broken. There are two in situ. Vince. Ps the lefthanded nut has been loose on every albion box I've dismantled.
Posted: 11:41am 25th July, 2018
stinkwheel Subject: Lost gears possibly clutch related?
I'll add that when I was having trouble with the 4-speed box on my 350 bullet which got progressively harder to find first, then started jumping out of first, I landed up finding more than one problem. The ratchet mechanism was pretty worn so I swapped that out which helped a little but not much. I eventually "bit the bullet", drained the grease and stripped it properly. I did this with the box in-situ on the bike.

I found two things, the first was an horifically bad fit between the sprung detent and the selector arm which I fettled with a hand file (this being a precision piece of engineering equipment to whatever they used to fabricate the part initially. I suspect the factory employs a blind guy with one arm and an angle grinder). The second was extensive chipping of the dogs on two of the gear clusters, which I replaced.

This all sounds like a huge amount of hassle to fix but was, in reality, a total of one afternoons work. The worst bit was cleaning all the stinking grease off every part I wanted to work on. The box itself is not a complex piece of machinery. I took plenty of digital photos as I dismantled it in case I forgot where anything went but as I recall, they were unecessary. None of the parts are particularly expensive either so if something looks worn/dodgy, just swap it out.
Posted: 12:49pm 25th July, 2018
Super45 Subject: Lost gears possibly clutch related?
Thanks Vince Are they easy to get our without disturbing anything vital? @Stinkwheel good to know although if gets to that sort of stage It may be farmed out to someone who has more time than me to fix it (12 month old child whos into everything ) are there any specialists in east mids/west mids area besides out hosts?
Posted: 01:23pm 25th July, 2018
Jamesy Subject: Lost gears possibly clutch related?
I am glad I read this post because an ongoing problem trying to get my b350 into first without "crunching" may be attributed to some of the faults listed here.If I do find a related problem I will post here.I had the clutch stripped out at the weekend but could find no apparent problem.
Posted: 08:37pm 25th July, 2018
Super45 Subject: Lost gears possibly clutch related?
@ Jamesy If mine goes in gear it stalls no crunch clutch isnt adjusted coreecdtly at the moment so thats another job
Posted: 10:10am 27th July, 2018
Leon Novello Subject: Lost gears possibly clutch related?
I have posted this previously, but it`s a little light reading for the weekend. http://www.snowvalley.20m.com/bikes/clutches.htm
Posted: 10:59am 27th July, 2018

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