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Running rich

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Running rich
Started at 08:40pm on the 7th March, 2018 by Smithy
Smithy Subject: Running rich
Hi I've just bought a 2016 Classic EFI with 4000 miles on the clock. I fitted a Hitchcocks Gold star silencer which sounds great, however the bike is running very rich. There is black soot in the tailpipe and a friend of mine said it puffed out black smoke as I pulled away from his house. Other than an expensive power commander does anyone know how to remedy this please.
Posted: 08:40pm 7th March, 2018
Alan R Subject: Running rich
Hi Smithy----At this stage and without any other info to hand I'd say that fitting a silencer that has a much reduced back pressure is giving false gas flow readings for the EFI system ( Electronic Fuel Injection )..........Remember that your model was set up to meet Euro. Emission limits so any change from standard items will have an adverse impact unless you compensate for that change........With respect to the Dynojet Power Commander go to Pages 42 and 88 in our hosts catalogue where they will tell you that}----"Fitting It is essential when tuning the engine with different silencers and air filters etc "......( £295 + Post & VAT )..........As the bike has only done 4,000 miles it must still have lots of Warranty on it so I'd check to see if this new silencer voids that warranty first.................Sorry mate, I know this isn't the answer you wanted to hear but, in my honest opinion I'd re-fit the original silencer, run the bike and enjoy it until that warranty has run its' course....During this time save up your spare £££ and then buy the appropriate Power commander....
Posted: 11:29pm 7th March, 2018
Smithy Subject: Running rich
Hi Alan Thanks for the reply, I suspected that I would need to buy a Power Commander to cure this problem. Never mind it will be worth it in the long run as everything else about the bike suits me fine. I don't have the original silencer as when I bought the bike it already had on an aftermarket silencer that I didn't like the look of. Thanks again. Ian
Posted: 07:24am 8th March, 2018
Rattlebattle Subject: Running rich
There is another option: fit a carb conversion kit. That’s what I did on my C5 when I faced a similar problem. It now runs much better, looks better and sounds better because the air filter is where it should be. I took a chance on the warranty - as it happens I had no further issues and the bike is now out-of-warranty. IIRC the cost saving of the carb kit over the PCV for a CGT is less advantageous. Like I said, just another option to consider.
Posted: 09:28am 8th March, 2018
ric Subject: Running rich
Assuming you don’t have an air leak or the cold starter plunger is being held off it’s seat which would result in rich running you could just unscrew the sensor in the down pipe and clean it with carb/ brake cleaner or even the correct stuff (but not any people have that to hand in their garage) and see if that improves things.
Posted: 09:43am 8th March, 2018
ric Subject: Running rich high is the idle?
Assuming two bikes are the same apart from their idle speed, the bike with the higher tick over will have a darker tailpipe than the one with the lower tick over. Chances are the one with the darker tailpipe will also hit the Rev limiter quicker because it will be running richer at WOT.
Posted: 10:03am 8th March, 2018
Dan H Subject: Running rich
I believe the cold/bi starter should not have any effect on the mixture when in use or if the plunger is not seating fully. All that should happen is the idle will increase slightly due to the extra air being passed through the passageways.The ECU should compensate the correct amount of fuel to match this extra air using the MAP sensor as its reference and should not cause any excessively rich running.

The Power Commanders are ideal to pair to the bike after changing the silencer to give an optimum setup but should not be a necessity. The symptoms the OP has listed sound excessive for only changing to a goldstar silencer whilst retaining the standard fuel injection setup. Has anything else been changed on the bike that could may be having an effect? Perhaps its worth looking over the bike in case there is an issue lying elsewhere?
Posted: 01:13pm 8th March, 2018
Rattlebattle Subject: Running rich
I’m inclined to agree; it shouldn’t make that much difference. I doubt that it’s much to do with the O2 sensor. It could be the TPS has been knocked and the adjustment upset. That happened to mine with the original sensor and the engine got more and more choked until it wouldn’t start at all. A simple fix. The O2 sensor on these bikes is narrow band and only affects the mixture over a limited rev range. One way of fooling the ECU is to install a resistor into the sensor wiring and remove the O2 sensor (which I believe you do anyway if you fit a PCV). Another possibility is a leak in the air filter. On an EFI bike this causes rich running as the ECU compensates for more air. I’d do a bit of checking before needlessly splashing the cash.
Posted: 03:16pm 8th March, 2018
beamish Subject: Running rich
I am not technically minded (as you may have guessed from previous contributions!) but I fitted Mr. H's free flow exhaust pipe and silencer to my 2009 EFI and it has run in a delightfully spritely manner since then. I understand that it is the additional fitting of the modified air filter which is the final straw, making a revised ECU necessary. I have not taken that step because the bike performs perfectly for my limited ambitions.
Posted: 05:53pm 8th March, 2018
ric Subject: Running rich
Agree it shouldn't but that is the result for me when I rotate my tickover screw.
I have no Bi-starter (or decomp) as my bullet will start without touching the throttle and happily tickover at around 0*C. It occurred to me that I'm unlikely to ever want to go out for a ride at temperatures lower than freezing so decided to completely junk the Bi-starter. The extra clearance through the nacelle without the cable makes for a much much easier clutch pull.
However this IS what happens on mine, perhaps it's because my TPS value is set at 0.8V who knows!
When I run a slow tickover by turning the screw about 1.25 turns clockwise from the factory setting (I'm talking a 350rpm tickover), I lose the WOT performance and sometimes fail to even reach the rev limiter unless I can use a very long downhill stretch, but easily obtain over 100mpg. I raise the tick over to around 1200rpm and the bike will then happily bounce off the rev limiter on the flat, I lose mpg and end up with a very sooty exhaust whereas before it would be light grey. So something is definitely making it richer and the only thing that is being altered is the amount of air bleed passed the tick over screw. I can only deduce that the air screw affects idle and WOT settings and the ECU/lambda sensor takes care of all the bits in between.
I've had miss firing problems in the past caused by a dirty lambda sensor, cleaning it immediately solved the issue.
I'm only making suggestions from my own Personal Experience (not guesses) as to what may assist in solving the OPs problem :) He's free to follow or dismiss them like anyone else.
Posted: 07:21pm 8th March, 2018
Smithy Subject: Running rich
Wow thank you one and all for such a wealth of good information. It will take me a while to work through all of the ideas you have put forward, but I'm very grateful for your help. I usually run bikes with carbs (my other bike is a 1998 BMW F650) and know virtually zero about FI so the carb replacement kit looks interesting to me. Then again this may be an opportunity to learn something new. Thanks again Ian
Posted: 07:32am 9th March, 2018
Off to the shed again Subject: Running rich
Alan r may well beat me to it, but when you solve your problem, would you please let us know so we can all learn something. I have nothing to add from the excellent advise already given, sorry! Regards, Chris.
Posted: 08:38am 9th March, 2018
Rattlebattle Subject: Running rich
Smithy (and anyone else who may be interested) I suggest you visit Youtube and look at the videos made by singh5g They really are very useful and show simply and clearly how to do a whole host of tests etc to an EFI RE bike, including the tps setting. As log as you have a multi meter and a couple of paper clips you are good to go. You will note that actually the cps should be set to 0.6v +/- 0.2v, so ric yours is right on the upper limit. IIRC the higher the voltage the richer - a popular mod in the days when I owned a couple of BMW oilseeds was to set the tps voltage a little higher than the factory setting to get rid of surging. Also, unless one has removed the auto decompressor one won't be able to get a reliable tickover at 350rpm because that is the point at which it kicks in. My carb-equipped C5 ticks over nicely and, importantly, very reliably unlike when it had the original set-up when it would hunt and occasionally stall (something to which the CGT is more prone). As my auto-decompressor works fine I have left it alone. Personally I'd do that anyway on an early C5 because the sprag clutch wasn't too clever and they didn't have kickstarts. I never used the bi-valve starter on mine because I found it really awkward and anyway it wasn't necessary at the ambient temperatures at which I use my bikes. Wideband O2 sensors as used on cars constantly measure exhaust emissions and adjust the mixture accordingly throughout the rev range and can accommodate exhaust changes with no bother. The narrow band ones on these and other bikes with crude EFI systems only operate at the lower end; they do not do anything at WOT. I forgot to mention, Smithy, that there is another option - a Dobeck. This is a much cheaper version of the PCV on which you can actually alter the fuel mapping as you ride (insert favoured H&S warning about own risk etc HERE). Our American and Australian fellow sufferers (sorry, owners) favour these. Try a search on; this is the American equivalent of this forum and has loads of info on it, especially on the EFI models. Worth joining, but it can be a bit awkward to do so. Good luck.
Posted: 10:29am 9th March, 2018
Rattlebattle Subject: Running rich
Sorry about the predictive text booboos; I hope you can make sense of it all. BTW an analogue multimeter is handy for checking the operation of the tps because it shows as a clear sweep of the needle how the voltage increases as the throttle is opened - a lot clearer than constantly changing figure on a digital one, which is a better bet for absolute measurements at either end of the scale.
Posted: 10:33am 9th March, 2018
Smithy Subject: Running rich
Hi I suspect that the richness is only on start up and immediate warm up as I haven't seen black smoke when I rev the engine once it is warmed up. I only use the fast idle lever if the temperature is around zero so I know it's not overuse of that. I don't think I'm too worried by it as the bike is running well so why worry. At this point I'm not sure how long I will keep the Enfield. I do somewhere between 10 and 15 thousand miles a year and the Enfield seems a little 'fragile'. I am not looking to insult anyone, but it just doesn't strike me as being able to stand up to that level of use. I love how it runs and sounds but somehow I'm not sure it meets my needs for a bike. Anyway thanks for the help guys I really appreciate it. Ian
Posted: 08:16am 11th March, 2018
Jamesy Subject: Running rich
Get rid before it depreciates in price any more and they do depriciate.For that kind of mileage buy a BMW or something like a Honda transalp.
Posted: 08:56pm 11th March, 2018
Alan R Subject: Running rich
or can I tempt you to a nice Honda XBR 500 ??
Posted: 09:10pm 11th March, 2018
Jamesy Subject: Running rich
One bike worth a mention for high mileages is the Suzuki v-strom.I know bike mechanics who swear by there reliability and quality.The new Honda Africa twin is also worth a mention if you can afford it.
Posted: 09:19pm 11th March, 2018
Smithy Subject: Running rich
Hi Guys Jamesy I have a BMW F650 that I am currently re-building. It is my third F650 and my eighth BMW. The last F650 I had was stolen when it had 75000 miles on the clock and an R80 I had before that had 95000 miles on the clock when I stupidly sold it. Thanks for your comments on depreciation that is something certainly worth considering. Alan I had an XBR 500 a while back and it was a cracking good bike. I'm a member of Thumper Club and they're very popular with members and me. Do you have one to sell? Ian
Posted: 09:20pm 11th March, 2018
Jamesy Subject: Running rich
Totally forgot about Royal Enfields Himalayan from the "workhorse"stable.Dont know if it's the best for lots of motorway miles.I had a BMW F650 funduro 1998 model a while back.Now that's a workhorse.
Posted: 06:47am 12th March, 2018

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